tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post6209756747981753519..comments2023-12-31T01:23:39.943-05:00Comments on Mayerson on Animation: Six Authors in Search of a Character: Part 13, Rotoscoping and Motion CaptureMark Mayersonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00065971589878678848noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-56176882458062433992007-07-03T17:32:00.000-04:002007-07-03T17:32:00.000-04:00Heya Mark!sure, I was one of the animators working...Heya Mark!<BR/><BR/>sure, I was one of the animators working on gollum for many years.. I also rigged his animation system & wrote the animation side of the production pipeline for LOTR. :) <BR/><BR/>I'll be the first to say how amazing Andy's performance was.. but then I'll also be mentioning the phenominal work from the 18 animators who worked on Gollum's performance, the leadership from Randy, Adam, and Richie, and the rendering/roto/comping/dynamics from the rest of the crew.<BR/><BR/>It was interesting working through the production, watching the media grab onto the idea that gollum was created by this one person.. when in reality it was everyone at Weta who made him who he is.jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07974113731468024126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-81698544136780925542007-07-02T04:26:00.000-04:002007-07-02T04:26:00.000-04:00http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0772192/Jason happened ...http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0772192/<BR/><BR/>Jason happened to be where I got my Gollum comment from too. He mentioned it somewhere at Animation Mentor or CGtalk.Benjamin De Schrijverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04113326323094548928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-58679566114434329582007-07-01T20:35:00.000-04:002007-07-01T20:35:00.000-04:00Jenny, I would never claim that Frank Thomas cheat...Jenny, I would never claim that Frank Thomas cheated, but your question is a valid one. I wonder if the animators preferred working on Lady and the Tramp or Dalmatians simply because roto was out of the question and they owned more of the performance.<BR/><BR/>Jason, I don't doubt you, but can I ask where you got your information?<BR/><BR/>Your comment just highlights how impossible it is to pin down who has contributed what to a performance. Besides the conflicting evidence or claims made by various people on the production, it's also impossible to know from an audience standpoint where an action or piece of business originated.Mark Mayersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00065971589878678848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-35404662477308549782007-07-01T19:52:00.000-04:002007-07-01T19:52:00.000-04:00the funny thing about that andy & gollum image you...the funny thing about that andy & gollum image you're using is that they're not at all related.. the gollum shot was from a shot animated by Mike Stevens.. keyframed (although referenced off Andy's performance). that whole sequence where he's talking to himself was mocapped, but none of the mocap was used.jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07974113731468024126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-54716453497637167302007-06-30T19:17:00.000-04:002007-06-30T19:17:00.000-04:00Motion capture has its place, but I wouldn't place...Motion capture has its place, but I wouldn't place it in the character animation category either.<BR/><BR/>However, many of the shots on Gollum were completely handkeyed. In some mocap was only used as reference. Others were indeed completely cleaned-up mocap, but I believe that was the minority.<BR/><BR/>As for Kong, according to some animators (won't name them because I don't know if they'd like that), King Kong only included 2 complete mocap shots. Others had to be edited, most had to be handkeyed. Halfway into production, Peter Jackson didn't even look at the mocap anymore. Or at least that's what I've been told.<BR/><BR/>Another interesting story I've heard was about Polar Express: A former Disney 2D animator joined later in the production of that film and was assigned some small shots that had to be completely handkeyed because it wasn't worth going back to the mocap stage for. So on dailies, one of those shots was shown, and supposedly Zemeckis said something like "Now why can't the rest of the movie look like that?!"<BR/><BR/>I'm eagerly awaiting Beowulf. I've heard it looks good, and I'm excited to see it in motion after the sneak posters that were released. If these mocap projects can find a way in which they're not really trying to copy live action and are not trying to copy how animation looks, finding their own way of doing things and their own style, I think it might have a chance. And it definitly has its place in FX, if it produces the best result.Benjamin De Schrijverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04113326323094548928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-27501132.post-15469121282713448102007-06-30T16:49:00.000-04:002007-06-30T16:49:00.000-04:00The roto wasn't a problem for the Fleischers, but ...The roto wasn't a problem for the Fleischers, but it's a bit of a sticky wicket when contemplating Disney animation. <BR/><BR/>I saw "Peter Pan" recently--over and over again on a 12 hour flight--and I was wondering what part rotoscope played in PP and in "Alice in Wonderland" earlier. Apparently both films were <I>almost</I> completely shot scene for scene using live actors-<I>in costume</I>, no less. I'd heard this and seen a few photostats from those sessions, but when I finally saw on one special or another silent bw footage from "Alice" I was shocked at how close the final animation was to what the actors were doing during their voice track playbacks. Then there's the stat/animation comparison from "Cinderella" where we see I believe Frank Thomas using Eleanor Audley's closeups to great effect for his animation. In the fantastic scenes of Hans Conreid's Hook in PP, was it Frank Thomas coming up with all the acting of Conreid smoking his double-cigar/candelabra-holder, or did Conreid come up with that stuff, or did yet another person stage it and Thomas used the stats for his sequence? <BR/>I revere Thomas' work, and I don't want to suggest he "cheated"-I don't think he did-just wondering what the extent of actual use and application of roto was at Disney from 1950 onwards. How much was "finessing" and how much inventing? Likely it's a constant movement between the two.<BR/>And I agree--motion capture is an impressive technology, but it is not character animation as I define it--it's something else.Jenny Lerewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06668171465801333811noreply@blogger.com