Comment 1) When you get back to doing feature-film mosaics, my request is "Cinderella" (1950). It's the first time all the Nine Old Men are credited together as animators, and the first of any project since "Snow White" (1937) where all nine worked together. It would be cool to see how much each of them, plus Norm Ferguson, did. I know what characters Marc Davis, Milt Kahl, Ward Kimball, Eric Larson, Woolie Reitherman, Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston animated, but I don't know what characters Les Clark, John Lounsbery and Norm Ferguson animated.
2) I found out that Walt was going to adapt "Beauty and the Beast" in the early 50s. If history had been different in that he had completed it for a [1952] release, and the same characters were used as those in the Eisner-made version of reality, which animators did you think would've handled each character?
My guess is that Marc Davis would've animated Belle while Eric Larson would've animated the Beast. Frank Thomas would've animated Gaston. John Lounsbery would've animated Lumiere, and Milt Kahl would've animated Cogsworth. Les Clark would've animated Mrs. Potts, and Woolie Reitherman would've animated Chip. Ward Kimball would've animated Maurice. Ollie Johnston would've animated Lefou. Norm Ferguson would've animated Phillipe. Fred Moore might have handled the Wardrobe, and the wolves might've been handled by Hal King and/or Cliff Nordberg. How accurate do you think that is??
I am wholly dependent on Hans Perk for supplying drafts from which to work. I have no idea if he has the Cinderella draft or plans to publish it at afilmla.blogspot.com.
I would guess that Kahl would have animated Gaston, as he was usually stuck with the Prince type. I would guess that Kimball or Lounsbery would have animated LeFou. I think that Frank Thomas (possibly teamed with Kahl) would have animated the Beast. That's the role with the greatest acting challenges in the film, and certainly Thomas would have lobbied hard for the opportunity.
What if the "Beauty and the Beast" team had done "Sleeping Beauty" in the nineties? Would Andreas Dejas have animated the prince? Would Glen Keane or Mark Henn have animated Briar Rose? Would Eric Goldberg or Ken Duncan have animated the three good fairies?
Finally, who gets Malificient? James Baxter, perhaps?
You can start with two Disney films Patterson was credited for: Dumbo and Dance of the Hours segment of Fantasia. I may still have some of his drawings from Hubley's Carousel feature. Perhaps I should post them, if I can find them.
Comment 1) Wasn't Don Patterson the brother of Ray Patterson? I heard that they were always helping each other get jobs: Don, for example, must've been Ray's connection to Disney, and Ray must've been Don's connection to MGM.
Comment 2) I hereby restate my earlier hypothesis on the supervising animators of the never-made "Beauty and the Beast" of the 50s, with Mark Mayerson adjustments:
Marc Davis animating Belle, Frank Thomas animating the Beast, Milt Kahl animating Gaston, Ollie Johnston animating Lumiere, Eric Larson animating Cogsworth, Les Clark animating Mrs. Potts, Woolie Reitherman animating Chip, John Lounsbery animating Maurice, Ward Kimball animating Lefou and Norm Ferguson animating Phillipe.
Comment 3) Do you know who animated the Siamese cats in "Lady and the Tramp"?
When I first saw "Beauty and the Beast", I was struck by how much the animation of Cogsworth put me in mind of the work of Ollie Johnston. When I mentioned this to Will Finn, the principal animator on Cogsworth, Will actually said that he was most influenced by Ollie's characters and approach to pathos when he animated him. So, I would amend your list further, suggesting that Ollie would have likely animated Cogsworth. Fun idea by the way, Maurice!
"Comment 3) Do you know who animated the Siamese cats in "Lady and the Tramp"?
Maurice,
Mark may have additional information , but if my memory serves the Siamese Cats in Lady and the Tramp were animated by John Sibley, Bill Justice, and Bob Carlson
Comment 1) Another thought on the question asked by Cartoonzrule: I never knew much about Don Patterson other than that he worked on "Fantasia". Ray's work is the stuff I hear about: how he was always the chief animator of the bulldog in the MGM Tom and Jerry cartoons, and how he (along with Charles Nichols) steered the wheel of Hanna-Barbera's animation department when the company's two namesakes were overrun with the amount of Saturday morning TV programs they had to make. This is probably why Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera publicized his talent a lot.
Comment 2) My hypothesis on the Nine Old Men assignment lineup for the never-made Beauty and the Beast of 1952, with Pete Emslie's adjustment:
Marc Davis animating Belle, Frank Thomas animating the Beast, Milt Kahl animating Gaston, Eric Larson animating Lumiere, Ollie Johnston animating Cogsworth, Les Clark animating Mrs. Potts, Woolie Reitherman animating Chip, John Lounsbery animating Maurice, Ward Kimball animating Lefou and Norm Ferguson animating Phillipe.
Comment 3) To Mark Mayerson: Do you know who storyboarded the battle between the angry townspeople and Lumiere's makeshift castle defense squad? It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen in an animated feature.
Comment 4) To David (if he's still checking into this blog): Do you know what character(s) Hal King was responsible for on "Lady and the Tramp"? I was surprised to see him credited as a supervising animator.
"Comment 4) To David (if he's still checking into this blog): Do you know what character(s) Hal King was responsible for on "Lady and the Tramp"? I was surprised to see him credited as a supervising animator."
Hi, Maurice,
No, I'm sorry to say that I don't remember what Hal King worked on specifically in Lady and the Tramp. It's been a long time since I saw the draft for Lady and The Tramp. I wish I had made photocopies of all of them (even though we really weren't supposed to) when I had access to them at the Disney library when I worked there. I have copies of portions of certain drafts, but I wish I had all of them. Hans Perk would probably know.
I've always been impressed with the high-quality of Hal King's work on scenes that I know are his. King is certainly one of those animators who lived too long in the shadow of the 9 old men. Because he was given Directing Animator credit on Lady and the Tramp I would suppose he supervised the animation on a particular character or sequence ... my guess is that he animated the beaver in the sequence at the zoo (?) . But I am only guessing.
The reason I remember that Sibley, Carlson, and Justice worked on the Siamese Cats is because I read it in an interview that Michael Barrier did with Ward Kimball. Apparently Kimball did some early work on the siamese cats which was not ultimately used in the movie and Michael Barrier mentions in a parenthetical comment that the draft credits John Sibley, Bob Carlson, and Bill Justice with those scenes .
I love the subdued colors in those mosaics. I don't know if it accurately reflects the colors of the film itself, but it sure is easy on the eyes. I fear that one day Disney will "remaster" the film for DVD, and we'll see more intensely saturated neon colors.
I'm wondering if you or any of your erudite readers might be able to identify the Disney animator who is shown in this image from the new Google Life Magazine archive (contains 10 million pictures, 97% of which have never been published!) Link: http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=5477d4eae64db5c2&q=1950s+Walt+Disney+source:life&ei=bHgxSdTyPI2SxAG1q42nBA&sig2=O2i-tTG4oWyAKuSkuFbffw&usg=__ihlaFZKxBmUI8EStyG6xp2z8o6I=&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1950s%2BWalt%2BDisney%2Bsource:life%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
To Mark Mayerson: Do you know whether or not Hal King is still alive? If he is, he would be the oldest living supervising animator of a Disney feature. If he's dead, I guess that title goes to Don Bluth.
Hal King died sometime before 1987. Walt's People Volume 4 has an interview with Dale Oliver from that year and Oliver says that King died "some years ago."
"Do you know whether or not Hal King is still alive? If he is, he would be the oldest living supervising animator of a Disney feature. If he's dead, I guess that title goes to Don Bluth."
Only if time freezes after 1977 and we don't count anything after "The Rescuer's" as a Disney feature .
Or do you mean the actual use of the title "Directing Animator" ? Did they never use it again as a screen credit after "The Rescuer's " ? But the function of directing animator was still there in the role of "Supervising Animator" or "Lead Animator" on the later movies.
What I meant by "oldest living supervising animator" was: the oldest man or woman alive today who was ever credited as lead animator on a Disney animated feature. Don Bluth was born in 1937.
Although I suppose Burny was never credited as "Directing Animator" though he certainly was a Director , of "Mickey's Christmas Carol" and "The Great Mouse Detective" .
Comment 1) Birth dates aside, I've contemplated the anonbymous person's remark. How young was the youngest animator when he/she started at Disney? (The youngest employee in that Disney department, that I know of, is the concept artist Mel Shaw, who started at 16). Who was the oldest Disney animator when they retired? (Grim Natwick, on the other hand, might have been working for Richard Williams well into his early 90s).
Comment 2) This comment has nothing to do with animation. The day I write this comment is officially Time Travel Day. A girl in my psychology class showed up in a trenchcoat and carrying a sonic screwdriver a la Doctor Who. It took me completely by surprise: Up until now, I've never met a die-hard Who fan since it's primarily a British craze.
The style and the animation of the film was ACTUALLY influenced by British cartoonist Ronald Searle, and look at his drawings on his stuff and the illustrations of St. Trinians, and his work was actually influenced by a Disney artist named Ken Anderson.
Comment 1) When you get back to doing feature-film mosaics, my request is "Cinderella" (1950). It's the first time all the Nine Old Men are credited together as animators, and the first of any project since "Snow White" (1937) where all nine worked together. It would be cool to see how much each of them, plus Norm Ferguson, did. I know what characters Marc Davis, Milt Kahl, Ward Kimball, Eric Larson, Woolie Reitherman, Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston animated, but I don't know what characters Les Clark, John Lounsbery and Norm Ferguson animated.
ReplyDelete2) I found out that Walt was going to adapt "Beauty and the Beast" in the early 50s. If history had been different in that he had completed it for a [1952] release, and the same characters were used as those in the Eisner-made version of reality, which animators did you think would've handled each character?
My guess is that Marc Davis would've animated Belle while Eric Larson would've animated the Beast. Frank Thomas would've animated Gaston. John Lounsbery would've animated Lumiere, and Milt Kahl would've animated Cogsworth. Les Clark would've animated Mrs. Potts, and Woolie Reitherman would've animated Chip. Ward Kimball would've animated Maurice. Ollie Johnston would've animated Lefou. Norm Ferguson would've animated Phillipe. Fred Moore might have handled the Wardrobe, and the wolves might've been handled by Hal King and/or Cliff Nordberg.
How accurate do you think that is??
I am wholly dependent on Hans Perk for supplying drafts from which to work. I have no idea if he has the Cinderella draft or plans to publish it at afilmla.blogspot.com.
ReplyDeleteI would guess that Kahl would have animated Gaston, as he was usually stuck with the Prince type. I would guess that Kimball or Lounsbery would have animated LeFou. I think that Frank Thomas (possibly teamed with Kahl) would have animated the Beast. That's the role with the greatest acting challenges in the film, and certainly Thomas would have lobbied hard for the opportunity.
Maurice suddenly got me thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhat if the "Beauty and the Beast" team had done "Sleeping Beauty" in the nineties? Would Andreas Dejas have animated the prince? Would Glen Keane or Mark Henn have animated Briar Rose? Would Eric Goldberg or Ken Duncan have animated the three good fairies?
Finally, who gets Malificient? James Baxter, perhaps?
Glad to see you've finished 101 Dalmations. Alot of thoes unceridted shots like 29 look like Frank Thomas work.
ReplyDeleteThankyou for making this project!
Do you have any more Lantz or WB drafts? I'd like to see one of those as a mosaic.
ReplyDeleteCan you identify some Disney cartoons with Ray Patterson animation in them. I found at least 3 cartoons that look like his work...
ReplyDeleteYou can start with two Disney films Patterson was credited for:
ReplyDeleteDumbo and Dance of the Hours segment of Fantasia.
I may still have some of his drawings from Hubley's Carousel feature. Perhaps I should post them, if I can find them.
Comment 1) Wasn't Don Patterson the brother of Ray Patterson? I heard that they were always helping each other get jobs: Don, for example, must've been Ray's connection to Disney, and Ray must've been Don's connection to MGM.
ReplyDeleteComment 2) I hereby restate my earlier hypothesis on the supervising animators of the never-made "Beauty and the Beast" of the 50s, with Mark Mayerson adjustments:
Marc Davis animating Belle, Frank Thomas animating the Beast, Milt Kahl animating Gaston, Ollie Johnston animating Lumiere, Eric Larson animating Cogsworth, Les Clark animating Mrs. Potts, Woolie Reitherman animating Chip, John Lounsbery animating Maurice, Ward Kimball animating Lefou and Norm Ferguson animating Phillipe.
Comment 3) Do you know who animated the Siamese cats in "Lady and the Tramp"?
When I first saw "Beauty and the Beast", I was struck by how much the animation of Cogsworth put me in mind of the work of Ollie Johnston. When I mentioned this to Will Finn, the principal animator on Cogsworth, Will actually said that he was most influenced by Ollie's characters and approach to pathos when he animated him. So, I would amend your list further, suggesting that Ollie would have likely animated Cogsworth. Fun idea by the way, Maurice!
ReplyDelete"Comment 3) Do you know who animated the Siamese cats in "Lady and the Tramp"?
ReplyDeleteMaurice,
Mark may have additional information , but if my memory serves the Siamese Cats in Lady and the Tramp were animated by John Sibley, Bill Justice, and Bob Carlson
Comment 1) Another thought on the question asked by Cartoonzrule: I never knew much about Don Patterson other than that he worked on "Fantasia". Ray's work is the stuff I hear about: how he was always the chief animator of the bulldog in the MGM Tom and Jerry cartoons, and how he (along with Charles Nichols) steered the wheel of Hanna-Barbera's animation department when the company's two namesakes were overrun with the amount of Saturday morning TV programs they had to make. This is probably why Bill Hanna and Joe Barbera publicized his talent a lot.
ReplyDeleteComment 2) My hypothesis on the Nine Old Men assignment lineup for the never-made Beauty and the Beast of 1952, with Pete Emslie's adjustment:
Marc Davis animating Belle, Frank Thomas animating the Beast, Milt Kahl animating Gaston, Eric Larson animating Lumiere, Ollie Johnston animating Cogsworth, Les Clark animating Mrs. Potts, Woolie Reitherman animating Chip, John Lounsbery animating Maurice, Ward Kimball animating Lefou and Norm Ferguson animating Phillipe.
Comment 3) To Mark Mayerson: Do you know who storyboarded the battle between the angry townspeople and Lumiere's makeshift castle defense squad? It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen in an animated feature.
Comment 4) To David (if he's still checking into this blog): Do you know what character(s) Hal King was responsible for on "Lady and the Tramp"? I was surprised to see him credited as a supervising animator.
"Comment 4) To David (if he's still checking into this blog): Do you know what character(s) Hal King was responsible for on "Lady and the Tramp"? I was surprised to see him credited as a supervising animator."
ReplyDeleteHi, Maurice,
No, I'm sorry to say that I don't remember what Hal King worked on specifically in Lady and the Tramp. It's been a long time since I saw the draft for Lady and The Tramp. I wish I had made photocopies of all of them (even though we really weren't supposed to) when I had access to them at the Disney library when I worked there. I have copies of portions of certain drafts, but I wish I had all of them. Hans Perk would probably know.
I've always been impressed with the high-quality of Hal King's work on scenes that I know are his. King is certainly one of those animators who lived too long in the shadow of the 9 old men. Because he was given Directing Animator credit on Lady and the Tramp I would suppose he supervised the animation on a particular character or sequence ... my guess is that he animated the beaver in the sequence at the zoo (?) . But I am only guessing.
The reason I remember that Sibley, Carlson, and Justice worked on the Siamese Cats is because I read it in an interview that Michael Barrier did with Ward Kimball. Apparently Kimball did some early work on the siamese cats which was not ultimately used in the movie and Michael Barrier mentions in a parenthetical comment that the draft credits John Sibley, Bob Carlson, and Bill Justice with those scenes .
I love the subdued colors in those mosaics. I don't know if it accurately reflects the colors of the film itself, but it sure is easy on the eyes. I fear that one day Disney will "remaster" the film for DVD, and we'll see more intensely saturated neon colors.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if you or any of your erudite readers might be able to identify the Disney animator who is shown in this image from the new Google Life Magazine archive (contains 10 million pictures, 97% of which have never been published!)
ReplyDeleteLink:
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=5477d4eae64db5c2&q=1950s+Walt+Disney+source:life&ei=bHgxSdTyPI2SxAG1q42nBA&sig2=O2i-tTG4oWyAKuSkuFbffw&usg=__ihlaFZKxBmUI8EStyG6xp2z8o6I=&prev=/images%3Fq%3D1950s%2BWalt%2BDisney%2Bsource:life%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN
That's Ward Kimball
ReplyDeleteTo Mark Mayerson: Do you know whether or not Hal King is still alive? If he is, he would be the oldest living supervising animator of a Disney feature. If he's dead, I guess that title goes to Don Bluth.
ReplyDeleteHal King died sometime before 1987. Walt's People Volume 4 has an interview with Dale Oliver from that year and Oliver says that King died "some years ago."
ReplyDelete"Do you know whether or not Hal King is still alive? If he is, he would be the oldest living supervising animator of a Disney feature. If he's dead, I guess that title goes to Don Bluth."
ReplyDeleteOnly if time freezes after 1977 and we don't count anything after "The Rescuer's" as a Disney feature .
Or do you mean the actual use of the title "Directing Animator" ? Did they never use it again as a screen credit after "The Rescuer's " ? But the function of directing animator was still there in the role of "Supervising Animator" or "Lead Animator" on the later movies.
What I meant by "oldest living supervising animator" was: the oldest man or woman alive today who was ever credited as lead animator on a Disney animated feature. Don Bluth was born in 1937.
ReplyDeleteHow old is Burny Mattinson ?
ReplyDeleteAlthough I suppose Burny was never credited as "Directing Animator" though he certainly was a Director , of "Mickey's Christmas Carol" and "The Great Mouse Detective" .
Comment 1) Birth dates aside, I've contemplated the anonbymous person's remark. How young was the youngest animator when he/she started at Disney? (The youngest employee in that Disney department, that I know of, is the concept artist Mel Shaw, who started at 16). Who was the oldest Disney animator when they retired? (Grim Natwick, on the other hand, might have been working for Richard Williams well into his early 90s).
ReplyDeleteComment 2) This comment has nothing to do with animation. The day I write this comment is officially Time Travel Day. A girl in my psychology class showed up in a trenchcoat and carrying a sonic screwdriver a la Doctor Who. It took me completely by surprise: Up until now, I've never met a die-hard Who fan since it's primarily a British craze.
I'm a bit late with this one, but thanks for doing these amazing mosaics and maybe your next project could be Jungle Book?!
ReplyDeleteNice to see folks still talking about my Grandfather Hal King and the amazing work he did as a Disney animator.
ReplyDeleteHe passed away many years ago. 1986 if my memory serves me.
He's missed.
Thanks,
John King (Grandson)
jon_a_king@hotmail.com
The style and the animation of the film was ACTUALLY influenced by British cartoonist Ronald Searle, and look at his drawings on his stuff and the illustrations of St. Trinians, and his work was actually influenced by a Disney artist named Ken Anderson.
ReplyDelete